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Herbs & health => Health => Topic started by: plantmind on November 27, 2015, 03:37:11 pm

Title: Herbal MAOI and Phenethylamines risks?
Post by: plantmind on November 27, 2015, 03:37:11 pm
Hi, so I am wondering if whole-herb MAOIs (A or B) other than harmalas have any risk to combine with phenethylamines. The herb in question at this time is Fo-Ti. Not just asking about the risk of serotonin syndrome, but also high bloodpressure, palpitations, or other side effects that the combination might induce. thanks.
Title: Re: Herbal MAOI and Phenethylamines risks?
Post by: akosi on November 27, 2015, 04:41:28 pm
What phenylethylamines are you speaking of?  What are you trying to accomplish?

In theory, and in my experiences as well, taking MAO-B inhibitors like he shou wu (fo-ti root) is safe with phenylethylamines.  This is because phenylethylamine, as well as dopamine are metabolized by both the MAO-A and MAO-B subtypes, so even at full inhibition, MAO-A can still metabolize excess amines.  You will still potentiate phenylethylamine by inhibiting MAO-B, however it is much safer than inhibiting MAO-A or both subtypes. 

Although, if the dose is pushed high enough, even with only fo-ti as an inhibitor, one could certainly "overdose" at a lesser amount of the phenylethylamine in question.  A friend did this very thing once with a sassafras based phenethylamine, which was massively potentiated by the fo-ti he had taken beforehand.  He recalls that the enhancement of effects was extremely potent and overwhelming at times even.

Fo-ti is a great herb for potentiating catecholamines, and may serve as a more balanced adaptogen that works along similar lines as Mucuna pruriens.  Both go great with cocoa btw ;)
Title: Re: Herbal MAOI and Phenethylamines risks?
Post by: plantmind on December 02, 2015, 04:44:45 pm
THanks very much for your response :) I am also curious how long do these mild inhibiting herbs last, specifically fo-ti? at single average dose versus say, a daily regiment?
Title: Re: Herbal MAOI and Phenethylamines risks?
Post by: akosi on December 03, 2015, 01:05:20 am
Not sure, but there may be a building up effect if taken daily.  14 grams is enough to activate cacao and make it more psychoactive, especially with a pinch of mucuna and kola nut.  I have gone on fo-ti regimens before, and it felt as if I needed less the longer into the regimen I was.  The goal was to see if by inhibiting mao-b daily, a buildup of endogenous phenylethylamines would occur.  The regimen was quite enjoyable, not as manic as a mucuna one, but definitely grounding and stabilizing, very yin jing.  It never felt like too much either, but if one takes too high a dosage of fo-ti there is a mild to moderate laxative effect.