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Author Topic: Kratom alternatives #1 (Chinese cat's claw)  (Read 1269 times)

Koda

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Kratom alternatives #1 (Chinese cat's claw)
« on: September 05, 2016, 12:38:04 PM »

Chinese Cat's Claw for pain relief support

Chinese Cat's claw is a species of the Uncaria genus, coming from the Rubiaceae family of plants & the tribe Nauclea, both of these groups also home to the recently re-discovered opioid-like plant we know called Kratom, aka Mitragyna speciosa, formerly known as Nauclea speciosa.

Chinese Cat's claw has a history of use as an anti-spasmodic, for convulsions, & epilepsy. It is a mild pain-killer, reduces anxiety, stops migraine headaches, and is an effective muscle relaxant. It has also been used in some traditional Chinese formulations for the treatment of opium withdrawal.

In addition to the classical effects of this herb, it has become known that Chinese Cat's Claw has a noticeable effect on reducing tolerance caused by opioid use. This may be in part be due to the potent NMDA antagonistic qualities of the herb. It is a known fact that pharmaceutical NMDA antagonists such as Ketamine can reverse opioid tolerance, so the connection is not hard to fathom, although it should be noted that Chinese Cat's claw does not possess a hallucinogenic profile like Ketamine and has zero abuse potential.

Some of the alkaloids found in Chinese Cat's claw are the very same compounds found in Kratom aka Mitragyna speciosa, & are believed to be the compounds that delay the onset of Kratom's tolerance on the opioid receptors. Some compounds found in various Uncaria spp are (most if not all of these are also found in Uncaria Rhynchophylla, aka Chinese Cat's claw)


-Rhynchophylline (NMDA antagonist,, Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker,
antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, anti-arrhythmic, antithelmintic.)

-Isorhynchophylline (NMDA antagonist, Immunostimulant)

-Ajmalicine (Cerebrocirculant, antiaggregant, anti-adrenergic (at alpha-1), sedative, anticonvulsant, smooth muscle relaxer. Also found in Rauwolfia serpentina.)

-Ciliaphylline (antitussive, analgesic.)

-Corynantheidine (μ -opioid antagonist, also found in Yohimbe.)

-Corynoxeine (Calcium channel blocker.)

-Isocorynoxeine (Calcium channel blocker.)

-Corynoxine A/B (Dopamine mediating anti-locomotives.)

-Mitraphylline (Oxindole alkaloid. Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, antiamnesic, anti-leukemic, possible immunostimulant
.)
-Isomitraphylline (Immunostimulant, anti-leukemic.)

-Isopteropodine (Immunostimulant)

-Catechin/Epicatechin (ntioxidant, antiaggregant, antibacterial, antidiabetic,
antihepatitic, anti-inflammatory, anti-leukemic, antimutagenic, antiperoxidant,
antiviral, potential cancer preventative, alpha-amylase inhibitor. Also found in dark chocolate.)

-Tetrahydroalstonine (Hypoglycemic, anti-adrenergic)



For those familiar with the Mitragyna speciosa alkaloid list, one can see that the similarities are stunning, and it is no wonder that both herbs have a historical use for treating opium addicts.

While Chinese Cat's claw does have the pharmacology of a useful tool during opioid cessation, it seems that outside of just providing this tolerance reducing effect, that the herb can also serve as a replacement or "filler" for those looking to manage their pain, being able to both decrease the amount of pain-killer needed to be used, and to reduce ones tolerance in the process thanks to the Rhynchophylline & Corynantheidine constituents found in the bark.

The best effects from Chinese Cat's Claw are achieved via consumption of the powdered herb. Many of the compounds are either heat sensitive, not water soluble, or are hydrolyzed when mixed with hot water or steam, changing the structure. While some of the effects will show through tea, it seems best to consume this herb whole as a powder. It is recommended by users of Kratom & other opioids to take 1 teaspoon after the last dose of the day, shortly before bed for the best results.


Below are some quotes from a kratom forum:


   
Quote
I have found this herb to be very beneficial when used as a powder. Grinding it into a powder lets me TnW (Toss & Wash) it easy with some OJ. I had the root bark before but I didn't know that heat messes up the experience, destroying almost all the good stuff. So I like to take it at night time, it makes me relaxed and I have had really vivid dreams the couple of times I have taken it. I will continue to use it to reset tolerance too. It works really well for that, because the next day my burns are always stronger and I can use a little bit less, maybe like a couple grams lower than my regular burn amount. Not only are my burns more potent, but they feel a lot more euphoric and energizing. I have never burned kratom in conjunction with the cat's claw, so that might be something I will try at some point. I am intrigued about the effect cat's claw has on dreaming. Has anyone else noticed that when they take cat's claw their dreams are affected? My dreams are longer and easier to remember, along with being more vivid then they usually are. The highest amount I have had was 3 grams of it. Just wanted to share my experience with this wonderful herb.



   
Quote
So far 4g TnW'd feels like its beginning to relieve the RLS. Maybe this will fully cover it if I take more.



   
Quote
Ok so I tried some cat's claw last night mixed in with my burn, 1g CC mixed with 4g K, I usually burn 6-8g at night. I gotta say it made the aroma stronger and last longer than usual.

 
Quote
   Now I am wondering how much one would really need to take along with the burn for preventing tolerance. Studies show that a regular dose of dextromethorphan (DXM, active in OTC cough suppressant) taken with opiates will prevent tolerance as well as make the pain killing effects stronger and the duration longer.
   
Quote
I do not see why cat's claw would not be able to do the same for kratom. 1g was great but I'm sure that is a lot higher than needed to get the desired effect so I'm going to start experimenting and see what I find out. I'm guessing that I will be able to see noticeable effects at 0.25g and maybe even as low as 100mg (0.1g).

Quote
    If anyone else has experience with this please feel free to chime in.

Quote

    What I kinda noticed is the cats claw itself don't exactly drop your tolerance. What it does effectively is when you burn it with kratom, it strenghtens the kratom. It also helps to prevent tolerance built when you do take it.
    I have been finding it pretty effective as of late with stem and vein burns, and with smaller burns than my usual.

    Basically what I get from it is, It can't undo whats done already. Like, hey i'll burn some cats claw and reset my tolerance. No not exactly lol.

    Thats my take, unless this is like kratom and effects everyone differently, which i don't think exactly.

Quote

    Taking it at night will make your morning burn stronger, and taking it before or with each burn will allow you to taper down the amount of kratom you use each burn and total amount per day. Hope this helped some

Quote

    I think it does a pretty good job of relieving wd's, so it can be used in place of a burn as well. Personally, I don't like taking it with kratom. I rather like to space it out a few hours between burns or at night before bed. It is a good sleep aid but sometimes it gives me some strange dreams, which is not necessarily a bad thing.



Chinese Cat's Claw can be found in in a hooked or powdered form here, both available for individuals and in bulk : http://meridianbotanicals.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=369
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Dakronick

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Re: Kratom alternatives #1 (Chinese cat's claw)
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 09:14:19 PM »

Hello koda :) i had just recently run into you in another forum on this same topic before it closed. Anyways, i have ordered this and several other herbs recently n my quest for an alternative to kratom, This herb (CC) really makes me curious due to how similar it is to kratom. I have not tried it just yet, probably will tomorrow. I am not really interested in an enhancer, i would like to just stop taking kratom daily and take it once a week or maybe less so that any remaining amount would last much longer.

My question is, this herb lacks the energy that kratom can give, from what i have read and been told. So is there another herb that would be safe to take with CC to give energy at the same time? Like guarana maybe? Or an herb thats stimulating? Kratom was the only thing i have ever found that would give me anti anxiety/depression while still giving me energy. Caffeine makes me very anxious and nervous in large amounts. But maybe in low amounts with this herb it would work nicely? Just a thought. I will try the CC first, then if i feel it is too sedative i may try to add something with it. Unless someone knows why this is unsafe? please let me know. 
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Koda

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Re: Kratom alternatives #1 (Chinese cat's claw)
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2017, 12:53:46 PM »

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, Dakronick.  Yohimbe would be the closest herb to kratom's stimulating aspects.  Yohimbe is also a relative and contains some of the same alkaloids, leaning on the aphrodisiac/stimulant side.  It can cause anxiety though, especially as it lacks the pain relieving aspects found in Kratom and Cat's claw.  However, there are other herbs that provide energy without causing anxiety, some of my top choices are adaptogens, and are as follows:

Red Panax Ginseng
Rhodiola rosea (Chinese)
Catuaba
Muira puama
Mucuna pruriens
Ephedra (more of a stimulant than an adaptogen)
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Pavedngold

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Re: Kratom alternatives #1 (Chinese cat's claw)
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2017, 01:44:36 PM »

What is meant by "the morning burn?" I only know what it means to "burn one. Is this the same thing or is there a method I'm not aware of beside T & W?
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akosi

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Re: Kratom alternatives #1 (Chinese cat's claw)
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2017, 02:17:06 PM »

Burn is safe terminology for utilizing kratom as it is not an FDA approved herbal for internal use.
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